Tired of the disrespect

[DJ Curtis]

You know, I did say that I don't mind if people port it for their private use... because I can't control that.

But private use means PRIVATE, not displayed for the world to see.

[LS Marie]

I think something should be noted in the legal aspect of this situation.  As I am somewhat knowledgeable in the area of copyright law (insomuch as I've been tested on it a few times and got perfect scores), DJ's file is subject to "fair dealing" whereby persons can use it for individual use, HOWEVER, certain provisions apply....

For starters, Canadian copyright law is automatic once a piece of work has been created.  As the work was created in Canada, International treaties will uphold the Canadian copyright law despite which region the file is used or viewed from. 

DJ has noted in the readme of the file that "Do not distribute modified versions of these files without attaining permission from the
author.  This includes mesh changes, textures, HP's, conversions, and any other modifications.  To request permission, please contact me via PM at BCC."

Under its "fair dealing" provisions, the Copyright Act does allow individuals or organizations to use original works without such use being considered an infringement: criticism and review, news reporting, and private study or research (section 29). The Act also exempts certain categories of users, specifically non-profit educational institutions (section 29.4).  Note that this does not cover publicaly projected images.  This is the same reason why poster prints of artistic works still need to ask permission to the owner (and also pay the owner to distribute those prints for that matter). 

The law of copyright also applies to the Internet, and so individual works found there are protected: using Internet text or graphics without the permission of the copyright holder, for instance, is an infringement of copyright law.

Now of course this makes me all sound like an anal hag.  But given that the people who've decided to infringe on the fair dealing provisions act like bratty little kids who have an undeserved sense of entitlement - I don't give a ----. 

And given what I briefly read on that other forum, I'd hardly worry about the karma.  Again, egocentric brats at work.  "Daddy is being mean!  He won't let me have a pony!  Wahwahwah."  My two year old has more respect.  Maybe one day their balls will drop and they'll get a clue.

[Nighthawk]

this might sound childish, but it's intentional lol

for all the whining modders: "nyah, nyah, I play BC and I can mod the shii-iiip nyah, nyah"

[admiral homer]

You know iam sick of cpt jon. He either complains or he does stupid things like this. Dj iam 100% behind you. When you make a brilliant and gorgeous mod like the century class you dont want it falling into the wrong hands or being realeased with out your say so and some one else getting the credit. I was sad to see the POTD with enterprise f in it, not just because it is being used in an inferiour game, but also its gonig against all that you have said. And because of what marie has pulled up from chrisjonesgaming forum cpt jon should be banned from bcc IMO

[Weasel]

You know, I kind of agree with the above. Someone should open up a Texas-sized can of Ban-Hammer with a side order of fries, unless there's some sincere apologies and significant reparations made. Such actions might include immediately pulling the Ent-F off of chrisjonesgaming, for instance.

I'm hoping the powers that be don't feel I'm overstepping too much- but seriously, are we going to uphold standards and enforce what is right for the BC community, or aren't we?

 :raven

Anyway, my displeasure is now known, and I'm spent. Hash it out amongst yourselves, mod-gods.

[Darkthunder]

I'd like to quote one of the more known modders from the UU forums in this statement:

If you're referring to the Legacy-boycotting by the original modeller, this ship was ported by Capt. Jon for his own personal use, no one elses, for anyone on this forum or for any mod, so there isn't a problem.

Jc2006 acknowledges that Capt. Jon ported the ship for personal use, however he kind of missed out on something: It's no longer personal, when you post a public image of it.

Yea so calm down man.... dont make me bring her against you! hehe j/k just dont end up like Darkthunder did....

And I was banned from their forums because I stated my opinions on a few things, and I was too concerned (as it turns out) about possible copyright infringements and the use of ships from Bridge Commander without obtaining proper permissions.

[cordanilus]

Hey darkthunder.  There's a chance I'll be joining you in "banned" heaven.

If this is the mentality ("Because I can") that I will be getting into (with the drydocks), then I don't want any part of it.

I'll be happy if this situation can be resolved.

I plan to email Chris Jones and apprising him of the situation.
Not to ban, but send a fair warning.  If they do not comply, then they are disrespecting him as well.

We'll see what happens.

[blaXXer]

folks correct me if I do say anything blatantly wrong:

basically legacy modding is a tiny fraction of good modellers and a huge pile of whiny kids who, because the lack the skilsl to build their own ships (the whiny kids, that is), have to port BC ships by the dozen to make that defunct piece of software, that is legacy (yes, I played it), at least abit playable.

sry, but that is pathetic. I'm with ya DJ.

[lint]

The people over at legacy seem to have a superior attitude complex going on,
I mean, DarkThunder getting banned because he was asking about the possibility of a copyright infringement?
That is total BS!,
its not like he went in there acting like an arse and flaming people over it,

Cordanilus-
Personally i think your drydocks are freakin awesome, But i would'nt give the Legacy community the pleasure of having them in game,
The recent actions of the legacy communtiy lately make me believe they dont deserve ANY of the mods from BC.

And with the issues with DJ's Century Class just does'nt show disrespect to him, It shows disrespect to ANYONE who has released a mod for BC,
if they are willing to do this to one of the best modders that has EVER graced the BC Community im sure they would'nt have a problem doing this to anyone else that releases a good ship.

[cordanilus]

Well, he locked the thread after my last post.

At least there'll be no more of that, for now.  Hey, here's some good news...I didn't get banned (yet).

Edit:

I had a chat with Jc2006 further about the situation.  He has apologized for over-reacting to my comments but you have to remember...He is a moderator of that site and one of the jobs is to keep the peace.  I'm sure you can agree with that.

But here's the thing, I've been told that others were complaining about Legacy and claiming that they know certain modders and has been found to be untrue.  Flaming seems to happen a lot over there and they tend to be on "High Alert" (My words) quite often.

I have gotten my point across about the rights of modders.

If upon the next time in which you see your mod presented in a fashion you don't like or authorized (depending on your readme.txt info, whether you give permission, open policy, etc...), you can contact one of the moderators to have it removed.

I guess it pays to know the guy at the top, lol.

On a side note:
LS Marie, can you send me some links or info about the ( "fair dealing" provisions, the Copyright Act ).  I would like to read this further and get a better understanding of it.  I can read it literally and this helps weed out all the loop holes it may contain.  It'll help me better prepare in case I need it.  Thanks.

[LS Marie]

Certainly:

Canadian Copyright Act: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html
Canadian Intellectual Property Office: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/copy_gd_protect-e.html
Creative Commons: http://www.creativecommons.ca/index.php?p=cacopyright
Ugly website, but has some myths about copyright explained (Canadian based again): http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

[cordanilus]

Thanks.

I'd prefer canadian stuff anyway.  Mainly because I live in Canada too, lol.

[Dawg81]

I'm glad us BC people are keeping it civil voicing their opinions hell if we posted this at STG it will most certainly get deleted. Capt Jon in my opinion is a troublemaker likes to start *@#$ (insert curse). Its best we ignore his posts, which he has done already. The only modding team i would trust is TLG with ports from BC. I am involved with them with getting port permissions as some my know as i sent PMs a while ago. As a BC modder myself i can understand this hell i even asked DJ about porting his beauties last month and he said no and TLG WILL abide by his wishes. There are some respectful Legacy modders out there but few and far between.
Thats my 2 cents for now  :lol:

[lint]

yeah,
im actually kind of proud of how we (the BCC Community) have dealt with this issue, i personally think if the shoe was on the other foot (us porting things from legacy without permission) the reaction would be quite different,
So well done to everyone for acting in a mature manner!, it re-enforces my opinion that the BC modding community is one of the best if not THE best around..

[Voyager16]

he might be a moderator, but to react like that..for something that small...hmm

I agree, TLG is good and respectfull.

[cordanilus]

Update, I have talked to Chris Jones through PM in his forums.  I have told him about the situation and mentioned about the rights of modellers.  It is to my belief that he understands this clearly and has deleted the thread with all the arguing. (He wasn't too happy about Jc2006's comments)

A new thread was made in it's place (from what I can see) and includes a note to the moderators about these rights and wishes of modellers.  It has Capt. Jon's port of the Enterprise F pictures on it and will remain so unless DJ Curtis decides that they be removed.  In which case, the moderators must abide by that wish and remove them.

I have acheived what I set out to do there.  They also took off one of the -1 karma's so I have -1 in total.  I guess you can call that my trophy, lol.


About IKS_YO_MAMA...I'm not sure what I plan to do about that yet.  I may just chat with this person about the rights of modellers and they should put in either a news item or some kind of post about the rights of modellers no matter if it's in a game or not.

We'll see. 

[lint]

Cordanilus,
Its good to see you have made some progress!, well done!
I tip my hat too you! 

[TheHalfMonte]

As much as I hate to say it, if anything can kill the Star Trek gaming community, it's mod piracy. While always a concern, it's been my personal observation that it's a stupid problem that has nonetheless gotten really out of hand as of late; unauthorized ports to Armada and especially Legacy frayed nerves in the Dnyaverse forums a few months ago, and one modeller was a pin's width from canning public releases as well. I'm already not a huge fan of bashers and porters like Cpt. Jon because they don't seem particularly keen on ensuring that the work they modify is thoroughly credited to the original author. After enough of these guys get into a community, hell almost, always breaks loose because newer members take the half-assed example people like him set to heart with regard to how to do business. . .

I doubt I've added anything new, still, it's tiring to see this nonsense spread from board to board.

[lint]

nah, its always good to hear everyones opinion,
i think the day will come when modders will set up an fserve or private forum and just circulate there releases between each other because of people who dont respect there wishes..

[IKS Yo Mama]

Hello I am IKS Yo Mama.

I felt I needed to explain things a bit and in doing so I will give you my honest reply to Cordanilus' e-mail which I gave him/her this morning. here it is
I totally agree with what you have said however a picture of the day which a member uploads that contains a model that they use privately is really not against rules. DJ_Curtis was worried about the mod being released and if it were to be released it would not have been hosted without DJ_Curtis' permission. However, I do agree that posting a picture of a ?private? mod can be a prelude to release, which is how at times we know what to expect.

If Noci3 attempts to release this mod I will not allow it on the site and will suspend his mods on the site until he publicly apologizes for doing so and gives a guarantee that he will not do it again.

I don?t know where a ship comes from in a PotD, it is impossible to know at times.

"What I want to address is DJ Curtis has every right to be upset when his wishes are violated and the moderators of this site do nothing about it."
 
Yes he has every right to be upset. We have done "nothing" about it because there is nothing to do about it. It's only a screenshot, it doesn't go against the rules, it might be bad tack from the picture taker but it is not against rules, a fact pointed out by Danny, a FF Network Admin on a BC Central forum thread.

We have tried to deter this type of mod theft http://legacy.filefront.com/info/Permissions


If I was DJ_Curtis I would be pissed off too but I am trying to be the guy in the middle and you know how at times that means some will see you as the bad guy, especially in a fractured community that is Legacy. So if you see me as a bad guy then I apologies for giving out the wrong impression, I don?t wish to make enemies and I only wish to give something back to Star Trek for what it has given me.

I will post a news item with something to the effect what you have suggested as I think it is a genuinely good idea. However, personally I am disappointed by this discussion on your BC Central forums, especially some personal attacks against my character
http://bc-central.net/forums/index.php/topic,2089.0.html

I am deeply disheartened and distressed by some of the comments, as I do have a lot of respect for the Bridge Commander Community; obviously it seems the sentiment is not reciprocated.

None of you actually know me personally and I have only the interests of protecting the integrity of all star trek communities at hand. I have stopped several ported-BC mods being hosted on Legacy before because I do refer to the original mod to see if the author gives permission to release them freely in their readme.

I do play Bridge Commander and I used to play it online a lot. I still download mods and use them in BC so I do have respect for the people who put time into keeping BC going.
Personally, I don?t like the fact that a lot of Legacy?s mods are BC ports but since the game was shunned by many modders it came to be the bastard child of Star Trek games that no one wants to acknowledge, which is why the rest of the star trek gaming communities are highly negative and abrasive towards it. The fact that Legacy was not widely accepted has only left new modders to mod it. New modders don?t know how to create new ships so they port them from BC, which is a shame because it doesn?t mean proper growth. Some have created new ships such as the Iris, Wombat, LongIsland, LaFayette, Delta, Luna and Devil Ray ships but not everyone has the knowledge to do so. 

Anytime we get a BC port we always make reference to the fact that it is a BC ship and we always make reference to the original author, because it is respectful ? example of  this is here http://legacy.filefront.com/file/NX_Nebula;83052 and here http://legacy.filefront.com/file/Victory_Class;81925 and here http://legacy.filefront.com/file/CR_Nebula;83051
So it is unfair to say that we don?t acknowledge the original authors and that Legacy is openly stealing mods from BC. Some are porting from BC but when they do the original is always referenced.

I will take you up on your offer and I will try to put out the bushfires from this. Hopefully this scenario will not happen again and I hope this does not affect your opinion of Legacy Files or the majority of its community in a bad way.

Kind Regards
Brian Hourigan (aka IKS)

That is my honest reply.